How Covid 19 Is Impacting High School Sports
Below is a lightly edited transcript of the conversation between Brandon Guyer from Fully Equipped Athlete and guest John Kelley, head football coach of Quince Orchard High School, Maryland on the state of high school athletics during the Coronavirus Pandemic.
If you’d like to check out the unedited video, you can find it HERE
Brandon:
First off, thank you for joining.
Let me introduce our guest, John Kelley. I met John in 2007. His wife, Jill, and my wife were best friends growing up, and when I met John, I believe you were the defensive line coach at North Carolina Central. And then, fast forward, 2014, he was hired as a Head Coach at Quince Orchard High School. And since then, in 2018, won the State Championship, three State Championship game appearances, four regional titles, I believe close to 30, or over 30, players that he's coached are now playing college football. And he was a great athlete, himself, playing college football at Towson, 2000 to 2004, I believe he was d-end, just causing ruckus on that quarterback.
So I thought John would be perfect to talk to you, just about the state of athletics in high school, what the future could hold, and what athletes should be doing right now.
I got off a Zoom with my college baseball coach at UVA, Brian O'Connor, and he was telling me how much he relies on the coaches that he knows in the high school area, the junior colleges, where he recruits those players, because the coaching staff can't really go out and see all the players in person. So they're really hoping that they can really trust these high school coaches. And for players out there, if you're showing that you're a great teammate, if you're a good person, that's what the high school coach is going to say to these college coaches and everyone else who is recruiting you. So, now more than ever, really focus on that, because these college coaches can't come and see you in person. They can't really see your body language, stuff like that. I know they're doing virtual showcases, where they can see some video and all that, but it's not the same. So, just remember that everyone's watching what you're doing, especially the high school coach right now, or whatever level you're at. So really focus on that, and really just try to be the best teammate you can be, because that is what is going to keep you evolving in your career.
So John, first I wanted to ask you, I know you have the pulse on what's going on. I know there's probably athletes from all over the country, but just for our area, what the latest is.
John:
For the DMV [Delaware, Maryland, Virginia], there is not going to be any fall sports or winter sports being played in this area until we get into January. Fall sports will get pushed back. The fall sports will start in February, March and April, for football, other sports. And the spring sports will piggy-back on the end of those.
Brandon:
That's just crazy, honestly. The fact that these high school seniors or juniors can possibly miss another season is just nuts to me. I just can't imagine being in that situation.
If you could pick a plan that's out there right now, is there one that jumps out to you, or maybe isn't even out there, that you would suggest?
John:
At this point, everyone understands [in high school] athletics, they're not going to get a full season in, what it normally might be. So even if it's condensed down, you're telling kids they can play seven or eight regular season games and then play some playoffs, that's fine. Just to give the kids something to look forward to.
They need to have some purpose, something that they can look forward and have a purpose to get ready for. Whether they're going to start in January or February. There's baseball players and softball [players], all across the area, who lost their season last year. So, they need to get ready to start. It'll be a year for them, before they start back up again.
Brandon:
That's nuts, because right now, there are some travel leagues going on. So those are going on, but the high school stuff isn't.
John:
That's the weird thing, you can go all across the state of Maryland, and Virginia too, some places in Virginia, and you can find an AAU lacrosse game, baseball game, basketball games, going on all over the place. But high school sports that are governed at the high school level, that you do not see going on. I can't do anything with my athletes. I can't even work out with them, outside, the small groups.
Brandon:
Really?
John:
Oh yeah.
Brandon:
So, if you're not able to really work with your guys, what are you recommending they do? Are they going to local gyms? Are they doing stuff at home? How's that working?
John:
Yeah, so I've had some contact with them. We have a GroupMe app, and we talk to them that way, just check on everybody, see how they're doing. I'd say for the most part, guys are ... because the thing is, it's a habit for them. It's a habit, the training is such a habit that if they don't do it, they don't feel right about much. So, most guys have been able to train. We've set up some workouts, stuff they can do from home, and try to keep in contact with them. As best we can, just to keep them active, and keep them engaged, and keep them going.
Brandon:
Yeah. The more I even talk about this, I just can't believe what they're going through. It's just so nuts.
John:
It's something you never think would happen. It's like a movie. Is this a movie? I often have to ask myself, is this a movie? It's unprecedented.
Brandon:
Do you see ramifications down the road? Do you have players that you thought were getting a college scholarship, but that is up in the air now? And how is that whole recruiting thing going for those players?
John:
The people that are going to be affected the most by this are athletes, really anywhere across the country, where their senior year is the year they're banking on to have the most impact on their recruiting process. The guys that are going to Michigan, Florida State, Alabama, this won't affect them at all, that they're not playing football in the fall. It's the guys that will be going to the smaller schools. The opportunity to perform their senior year, those are the players that are going to miss out the most.
There's a few things the NCAA might do. They could move their recruiting calendar around a little bit for all sports. That would help those guys, if we do play spring football around the country. So if that happens, that'd be beneficial for those guys. But, we've got I'd probably say three or four guys on our team alone, that I know they would have gotten scholarships just by playing as a senior.
Brandon:
Wow. When you say that, it makes me think of the MLB baseball draft this year. Because their season was cut short, I think it was only a five-round draft, as opposed to [40 rounds]. So it was just five rounds. Say you got off to a slow start or something [then] you finish strong, and that's when all the scouts see you [during the slow start], well you didn't get that chance for them to see you. Then you're probably not drafted, so you're going back for another year. Really, it affects every level.
And I remember, when I was in high school, I didn't really have a great baseball year until the summer of my junior season. So if I would have lost all that time to even play, I don't know what my future would have held, because I wouldn't have had that time to play and really play in front of the scouts and show them what I can do.
I feel like so many players are in that situation, so I sympathize with them. It's got to be just [crazy], but the thing is everyone's in it. If I'm in that situation, just knowing that you're not the only one dealing with it, everyone is dealing with it, and it's what you're going to make of it. And just know that a lot of people out there probably aren't going to be doing [the work] ... If you're putting in the work, a lot of people probably aren't going to be doing that extra work, so you come out better.
John:
[Exactly]. Guys that were able to motivate themselves to have that burning fire inside themselves, those are going to be the guys that are going to be okay. Things will work out for those guys. You have to win the mental game, because right now, this [all] is a mental game. Everything that's going on right now, for the athletes, especially, is the mental part.
Brandon:
Yeah. Do you envision kids being held back? Has that been talked about, just so they can get an extra season, or anything like that?
John:
Yes. I've heard some guys talk about that, and some players kicking that idea around. I know the state of New Jersey had actually made it a thing. They're going to do it. So, kids that are coming up to be seniors, will have the option, in New Jersey, to graduate high school, and then come back and play their fifth year of high school football, and take 12 credits at a community college. Then they can move on to college afterwards, in order to get a normal senior year.
Brandon:
Really?
John:
New Jersey, the Athletic State Association, worked with the NCAA to approve it.
Brandon:
I wonder how many will do that? I guess if you don't have the scholarship, but in a way, you're losing time in college. Then you're older, that could affect you the next level, the draft and whatnot.
John:
It would probably be, the kid that would deal with it, would be the kid who's a senior who probably doesn't have any scholarship offers, but if he got one more year of high school football, he would. He'd need to be able to do that. The super guys that you know are going to go to the big schools, they're not going to do it. It'll be the other guys.
Brandon:
So for you, when college coaches are reaching out to you ... my college coach was saying that he's really relying on the high school coaches who he has a good relationship with, to count on them to let them know how good this player really is, because maybe they can't see him in person now.
Are college coaches reaching out to you about that? And what are they really asking for the most? I'm guessing they want to get to know what the player's like. They can talk to them on the phone, but you can really only learn so much. I'm sure they're reaching out to you, "All right. We know he's a good athlete, but what's he like as a person," and all that stuff.
John:
One of the first things the coaches usually ask, they're asking about their grades and their character. What kind of student they are in the classroom, what kind of character they have off the field. And then the next question they ask is, do they love football? They want to know, do they love to play the game? Those three things, above everything else, are usually the first three things that come up.
Because, again, they're recruiting a guy that's going to be in their program for four or five years. They want to make sure he has good character. How is he academically? He does what he is supposed to do. Is he a good teammate? Can he relate to his teammates? Does he get along with others well? Can he problem solve? All those things right there, are all components that they want to know about a guy, before they'll actually get deep into the recruiting process.
Brandon:
You see it all the time where someone is so talented, but they don't have the other intangibles, so that just derails them. And I don't think a lot of high school athletes really think about that. Some do, for sure, but not enough to really think about...I have the physical talent, but what am I like as a teammate, and what else am I doing to make the most of that physical talent?
John:
The last couple of years, we've done a lot of leadership development. We've spent a lot of time with these guys on [leadership] ... Because I do think there's a certain part of a leader that you have or you don't, but I also think there's a lot we can teach the young guys about how to be a leader, how to do things the right way. And that's been a big bonus for us and these kids. We're not only developing them as a player, but just off the field stuff, from a leadership standpoint. And I think we're just scratching the surface with it, too. So I'm excited about what we're going to do with it down the road, and one of the things that we just talked about, so it could be good.
Brandon:
You saying that made me think of this sign that we had in our gym in high school, "Character is who you are when no one's watching." So especially during this time, when you're going to be at home most of the time, no one's going to be watching you, that's really going to show what kind of character you have.
Are you going to use that time to sit and play video games all day? Are you going to stay up all night? Or are you going to use that time to really hone in on your craft, and do whatever you can? When people come back, it's going to be a huge separator. You're probably going to see people come back, whenever it is people come back, night and day different, whether good or bad, from when this all started. It could change a lot.
Anything else that athletes should be doing during this time? I know you hit on a lot. Anything else that jumps out to you, that you think is crucial?
John:
I think one of the most important things is...just stay active. Obviously from a team competition standpoint, that could be limited, but that doesn't stop you from going out and just doing the most basic thing. Ride your bike. Go run around the yard. Just do things to keep yourself active as a kid, even the young athletes. And that's good for your mind, as well right? You have to be able to get outside and do stuff. Even though it's not a normal baseball practice, lacrosse practice, football practice, get outside at least 60 minutes a day and do something, whatever it might be. And take that time for yourself.
Brandon:
When the school year starts, what's the virtual training like? What are their hours that they have to put into school, usually?
John:
It's going to change a little, but I think the virtual [schooling], for a high school kid, is going to be similar to a normal day. So, it's going to be a 7:45 start, and a 2:25 end time. So, the first period might be virtual. From 7:45 to 8:30, they're in first period, virtually. And then for the next 45 minutes, they're in second period, virtually. And they go through all eight periods of the day, and they're done by two, whatever it might be. Now some classes might not last the full 45 minutes, but that window of time will begin when the next 45 minute block starts up. I'm not positive on that, but I think that's what it's going to be.
Brandon:
If they're done at 2:00, all these athletes, they have from 2:00 to whenever they go to bed, to get that work in.
John:
Plenty of time.
Brandon:
So are you writing up programs for them to follow? Do you try to ... I feel like my college coach was saying he has people send him videos of them hitting. Is that something going on now, more virtual training?
John:
We've done some stuff like that, but...we've got 100 kids. So for us to do that, it's just not very practical. We'll send out stuff for them to do, and then most of them get on board. A lot of our guys signed up for a fitness class all summer long, that was offered at a gym across the street from our place. So a bunch of our guys are up there, I'd say, probably 60 to 70 guys, three days a week, working out, doing stuff up there.
Brandon:
And that's still open? They're still able to do that?
John:
It's outside. I have no connection with it...so I know they go up there, but based on the rules and regulations, I'm not allowed to be there with them.
Brandon:
What do you think the reason is for that?
John:
Health and safety. That's the only thing I can come up with.
Brandon:
I wonder if that could change? Do you see people transferring from schools now or anything like that? Is that something that could happen, because maybe they'll go to a county that's less strict so they can play that year or something?
John:
Some kids were talking about if public schools can't play, then they'll go to the private schools and play. But all the private schools aren't playing either. So really, there's almost nowhere for kids to go, unless you want to move out of state. I think Pennsylvania might play. I think West Virginia might play. But as far as Maryland, DC or Virginia, those schools aren't going to play, private or public.
Brandon:
Do you think Virginia moving to the spring is going to affect how kids play football?
John:
I think kids will be able to play more than one sport. They can play football and baseball. They can play basketball and football. So the seasons are going to be spread out over time, so the athletes are able to do all that, and not get pigeon-holed into picking one sport and not being able to play the other.
Brandon:
[Do] you have a lot of multi-sport athletes on your football team? Have any of them thrown up in the air, like, "Oh, maybe I'm not going to play football," or "Maybe I'm not going to play baseball, just so I can focus on this one sport"?
John:
We do have some. Most of our guys are track. They'll be track and football guys. A few guys will do baseball. A few guys that do lacrosse. But who it could affect, is the smaller schools. We have an enrollment of over 2000 kids. So if you go to a high school out in Western Maryland, or some of the schools down in Southwestern Virginia, the enrollment at those schools is 500 or 600 kids, total. So kids have got to play back-to-back seasons all together.
Brandon:
Yeah, that's a grind.
John:
The way I look at it, though, is like we were once. They're 16, 17, 15, they can do it.
Brandon:
What do you think the reason is that a lot of [your players] don't play multi-sports? They're just so into football?
John:
I would say it's a combination of a couple of things. I think a lot of our sports, like our basketball team, for example, are year-round. They're playing tournaments, and if you're not consistently there, it's a little bit harder.
And then football, most of our guys will do spring track. We'll have two or three baseball players, or two or three lacrosse players at the same time, but we have so many kids in the building. And a lot of kids in our building do just gravitate towards football, but they can gravitate towards all sports. But for some reason, we just don't have a ton of multi-sport guys. Even though in high school, I was a multi-sport guy. I did baseball, football and wrestling, for three straight years.
Brandon:
I knew that it wasn't something that you were suggesting to them, like, "Oh, just play football." That's why I figured that's interesting.
John:
Gosh, no! I'm like, "Go! Go do something else. You don't have to lift with us, run with us." January through August, we're conditioning four days a week, with those guys, guys that aren't playing. My rule is this, "You're either playing another sport, or you're training with us. You're not just going home after school." No one just goes home after school. So when the day is over at 2:25, you're going to come and lift and run with the football training program, or you're going to go play basketball, baseball, lacrosse, whatever, track.
Brandon:
The fact that everyone's just going to be at home right now, I just really wonder how they're going to take it upon themselves. No one's going to be checking in on them, so it's really interesting how it's going to go, and how it's going to play out.
John:
Let's just be honest, right? There's going to be a lot of untrained people. They're kids. They're not going to work as hard as they are, if I was with them. They're just not. And without the access to stuff, some of them don't have access to the weight room and things like that.
Brandon:
When they're coming back and there's a season in the spring, if they haven't been doing much, that brings up what injuries could come of it.
John:
We gave out injury prevention programs to our kids. They got a lacrosse ball, a roller, and a band. And it was really just all lower body, injury prevention, for ligaments and tendons. It was a six-week program that they did, back in April.
Brandon:
So you're talking like foam rolls, stuff like that?
John:
Foam rolls, lacrosse ball, band stretches for all their shoulders and joints and stuff like that, to keep them somewhat doing stuff, when they weren't really doing as much as they should have been.
Brandon:
The foam roll and stuff like that, when we were in high school, I'd never even heard of that. And now, there's so many tools out there that they can use, but I just wanted to get into sleep and really try to get 8 to 10 hours of sleep. That's the number one thing they can do right now, especially being at home. They don't have to wake up super early to get to school. You might still have that first class at 7:00 in the morning or whatever, but you have so much more time where you can just stay up late at night, because you don't have to get ready. That's why sleep is the number one way to recover. But that foam roll, that stretching, yoga, whatever, can just help you take it to the next level.
Will evaluation of a player's usage of this time be factored into the recruiting process?
John:
I would say no. I would say from a college coach's stand ... it's going to be reflective on how successful they are. But if a kid wasn't able to train as hard, I wouldn't tell a coach not to recruit the kid because of that. Because they didn't have access to something. But, for the most part, the kids that are going to train consistently, are the ones that are going to end up with the opportunities to play in college.
Brandon:
So [my] college coach was saying how their showcases now, you know the technology's crazy, they have live feeds. So the coaches can watch when they're at a showcase and have active velocity and show the miles per hour of a pitcher. So, at least nowadays, there is that technology, if they're able to play a travel sport or something like that, where they can be seen. But...who knows how much longer a travel sport will even be able to happen.
So that could go away. Then, that's when the recruiting really gets thrown into the wind.
John:
Hopefully the NCAA allows [some changes], because right now, there's no evaluation periods allowed. So typically, college coaches, the baseball coaches, football coaches, lacrosse coaches, they can go see kids play, right now, depending on their sport. But it's a dead period. The NCAA extended the dead period through August. So hopefully, the NCAA opens up the dead period where these coaches can come watch athletes work out, once we get into September and October. And that'll help kids like that.
Brandon:
I hit on discipline earlier, but, we've mentioned already that it's really going to show who's disciplined and who's not. Especially when you're in high school, there's so many big distractions that could happen. You have all the social media nowadays, which is a whole other story. If you can wake up and really set a good routine and be disciplined for this whole time, you'll be amazed by the results that you get from it. And just build on each day, habit, habit, and have the routine based on the lifestyle you live and the goals that you're trying to achieve. And man, you could really take advantage of this tough time by doing that.
John:
I think what was good was back what you said about the sleep thing. To be disciplined enough to go to bed at a certain time, wake up at a certain time, to have a certain routine. Hard work requires discipline. Right? All those things require some sort of self-discipline, some sort of self-motivation to get done. Discipline is a fundamental principle.
Brandon:
Yeah, and there's so much more information out there now, for sleep, it wasn't until the first sleep coach with the Tampa Bay Rays, that I really got a grasp of how important sleep is. So you have that information, and there's just so much more stuff out there, with the internet nowadays, to really ... If you don't know something, go to Google, try to find something out. Or there's people out there that you can really go to YouTube, and you can teach yourself. So you might not be able to be around your coaches at this time, but you have all these other tools that you can reach out to, or do research and can really help you get through it, and learn new stuff.
[Back to] social media, What is that like in high school? I just can't imagine. Because for me, I had to stay away. I'm the most active I've ever been on social media right now, just because during the season when I was playing, I stayed away from it, because, man, [when you] have a bad game, someone's going to reach out to you, say these horrible things to you, whatnot, and you can get caught up in all that. So I can't imagine high school students, now, college students, what level you're at, how that can affect your mind, how that can affect your psyche. So how do your players deal with all that?
John:
To be honest with you, I've told my players for years and years and years, really, though, I'd say the last four or five years, is when it's become really a big thing and a problem. Usually, in a typical school year, I'll probably deal with three or four problems a year that come up because of social media, because of something someone said on there or did something that was on social media, and then it becomes a bigger issue.
So, as well as social media can be used for some positive things, and some good messages, there's a lot of negative things that can come from it. And also, I feel like everyone's too much like this [looking at their phones]. They're always on their phone and just like Twitter and the SnapChat
Brandon:
Guilty, guilty, sometimes.
John:
Yeah, me too. Trust me, I am too. 100%. I don't feel like the teenage brain is built to deal with Twitter. It's really not. It's almost like it's [not] fair. Because when you and I were growing up, not that long ago, but if you said something to somebody [in person], maybe you said something mean to a person, or you had a bad day. But kids, now, don't say that out loud. And now, it's in stone, because you [wrote] it. Even though they're just young and immature, they don't realize what they're doing, and it ends up getting them in trouble.
Again, their psyche is not ready to deal with that, with the ramifications of those things. That's the most unfair thing about it.
The only rule I tell my guys on social media is, don't talk trash to the other team. Do it in the game.
Brandon:
I haven't thought about that.
John:
You can say whatever you want. I don't care whatever else you want to say, just don't give anybody any extra motivation. Sometimes kids, they'll talk trash about the opposing team we're about to play. You can talk about whatever else you want, but don't talk about the team we're about to play.
Brandon:
So after the game, do they talk trash and stuff like that? How does that work nowadays?
John:
When the game's over, sometimes they do.
Brandon:
Man. Times have changed.
John:
Social media, woo, it's crazy.
Brandon:
I couldn't agree more. The positive side to it, that I think could actually help in [is] recruiting. I don't know if this is a thing, but being able to show [yourself] outside training, or how people like to show what they're doing. I imagine college coaches, if they're really honing in on a guy, they're watching what he's doing on social media. So obviously, there's guys out there that can do a quick video for a minute and act like they're working out hard. But those guys, you usually know if they are or not, and you'll be able to tell. But that super serious guy, if he's putting stuff out there, and content out there, and you can tell that he's actually putting the work in, in a way social media, I feel like, especially during this time could help out an athlete a lot.
John:
What you're saying is one of the beneficial pieces that social media could have, is from that standpoint, being able to get a video out quickly to a coach. I've done it, if it could help a kid, so I definitely agree with you there.
Brandon:
How are your players handling all of this mentally? What, if any, feedback have you gotten?
John:
It was tough, I'll be honest. In Montgomery County, they actually canceled athletics. They straight-up, about a week-and-a-half ago, they said they were going to cancel them.
Brandon:
All ages? Everything?
John:
For high school fall sports and winter sports.
When that happened, kids were just crushed. They were just like, the wind completely taken out of their sails, there was going to be no athletics for them for the winter or the fall. So I've dealt with a lot of phone calls and conversations over the course of three or four days. Now Montgomery County's coming along. They are willing to re-envision some things. So I think kids are starting to get some hope that we're likely going to, as long as things go on the right track, be able to have a season when we get to February, March and April. So that's going to pick them up a little bit.
But this has been hard for kids, very, very hard.
Brandon:
It's been a great conversion John. Anything else you want to let anyone know?
John:
I'm glad that we could talk tonight, and it was awesome. I appreciate you having me.
I've [told] myself a lot of times, control what you can control. Right? The kids can't control the fact that there's a virus going on, they can't play. Right? There's nothing you can do about it. So, it's not worth getting yourself upset and getting yourself down about it. They can control their work ethic, they can control how hard they'll push themselves, and that's all they can control.
Brandon:
Thank you, again, John. Thanks for taking the time.
John:
All right, buddy. See you.
